Are the Tories the SNP of England?

snowflake5 Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 05:23:51 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

The Tories are the SNP of England.



The little England tendency in the Tory party originally appeared with the advent of Margaret Thatcher, and it's got more and more pronounced with time. Note how Tory supporters caricature the Scots (they are all on benefits, they are subsidised by the English) as part of affirming their English identity, in a similar way that the SNP caricatures the English (oppressors of the Scots, thieves who've stolen Scottish oil) to affirm Scottish identity - i.e. both define themselves against their ancient opponents.

Then add to it that the seats the SNP hold in Scotland are former Tory seats of old ; Angus, Perth, North Perthshire, Moray, Banff, Galloway and Upper Nithsdale - wealthy, centre-right places. Both the SNP and the Tories appeal to the nationalists in their respective communities in Scotland and England.

The add to it Alan Duncan's chauvinistic comments saying "I'm beginning to think it is almost impossible now to have a Scottish prime minister" - i.e. Scots are second-class citizens of the UK, who should be barred from the top job - confirming the prejudices of the SNP have about the English - and you have two perfect mirror-images.

The question is, now that the Tories have conceded that they can never win in Scotland and Wales (and perhaps subconciously do not want to win there because they despise these people), are they going to continue to bother to field candidates for the Scottish and Welsh assemblies, and for Scottish and Welsh MP's to Westminster?


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Are the Tories the SNP of England? | 10 comments (10 topical)

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#1)

by GipsyKing on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:37:16 PM GMT

Ummmm, I think you'll find Scotland is actually subsidised by the English, so that part is correct

I'd also like you to explain exactly why you think Scottish MPs should have an say on issues at Westminster that do not affect their own constituencies?


Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#4)

by snowflake5 on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:33:53 AM GMT

The whole West Lothian thing is a red herring. First of all, Labour has a majority in England (That numpty Alan Duncan clearly can't do basic maths).

Secondly, as this Channel 4 fact check points out, Labour doesn't rely on Scottish MPs to get legislation through:

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=2703

Since the 2005 election, the government has not had to rely on its Scottish MPs to pass any bills which won't apply in Scotland.

The Terrorism and Identity Cards bills saw major rebellions, but these both apply north of the border, so Scottish MPs can vote on them without quibbles.

The Education and Inspections Bill, meanwhile, was passed with Conservative votes - overwhelmingly English.

I think Tories are just stirring because, like the SNp, they need someone to hate.


[ Parent ]

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#2)

by steppenwolff on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:42:02 PM GMT

Could you give some quotes which back up your assertion that Tories assert that Scots "are all on beenfits"?

NI MPs do not vote on English-only issues so why should Scottish MPs do so? Why is it fair that English MPs are (to use words uttered by Mohammed Sarwar) "second-class" MPs?


Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#5)

by snowflake5 on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:28:20 AM GMT

Well, here's a Tory on The Motley Fool (an Englishman in Scotland) giving vent to what he thinks of the Scots. You will need to register with The Motley Fool to read the whole thing, but here's a flavour:

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=8703890

I live within ten minutes drive of two such towns in Scotland. Kelty and Steelend since you ask. The correct 'Viz' term is 'Olympic Villages'. Here at any time of day you can admire the finely toned athletes lounging about the streets in their tracksuits. I believe the local secondary school has something in excess of 50% on free school meals. Scotland is packed with such fine examples. Da gubmint hides all these career wasters that have been subsidised to stay here from the unemployment figures by classing vast amounts of them as 'disabled'. Presumably because being too idle to get out of bed before noon is now a registered industrial disease.

Even more comically. Alcoholism is classified as a disability soi they get an extra 25 quid a week to spend on Buckfast. Fantastic. Your tax dollars at work as the yanks would say.

You find screeds and screeds of stuff in a similar vein when you get Tories talking about Scotland. And it's all the opposite of the truth. Employment is at 75.5% of the labour force, higher than for the entire UK (74.7%)


[ Parent ]

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#6)

by steppenwolff on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 04:31:06 AM GMT

Hmmm. I'm a Tory supporter so do I come under your sweeping generality? I could make the same comparison between Labour supporters and snobbery but why would I as its not true? I could even make assertions that John Prescott tolerates homophobia given the revelations on Iain Dale's blog, but why would I?


[ Parent ]

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#3)

by John Miles on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:05:53 PM GMT

Whe West Lothian question is a real constitutional anomaly that will need to be sorted out at some point. We can either stick our heads in the sand and leave it to the Tories to sort out on their terms next time they're in power or we can do something about it ourselves.

My preferred option would have been the Regional assembly one - granting Scottish Parliament-like powers to regional assemblies and having ALL MPs only vote on the remaining UK-wide issues. Unfortunately, the public don't seem to want this (as demonstrated by the North East's rejection on Regional Assemblies). I'm starting this think that an English Parliament (with PR) is the only feasable option. Still open to persuasion though.


Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#7)

by snowflake5 on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 05:23:10 AM GMT

I don't know if people have watched This Week, tonight, but Andrew Neil was getting quite hostile at Michael Portillo for saying that the Tories were no longer the unionist party. He accused Portilo, Tory, of joining the SNP!

I think there is a lot of capital Labour can make from positioning ourselves as the Unionist party (which of course we are, as we're in England, Scotland and Wales).


Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#8)

by steppenwolff on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 08:06:32 PM GMT

No one takes Portillo seriously any more.


[ Parent ]

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#9)

by snowflake5 on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 10:22:40 PM GMT

They take Andrew Neil seriously. There are a lot of Scots in England like him, seriously ticked off. And it wasn't Portillo who started this - it was that shadow front-bencher Alan Duncan, no doubt faithfully following some Cameron master plan to try to derail Gordon Brown by picking on the Scots. Bad idea.


[ Parent ]

Re: Are the Tories the SNP of England? (#10)

by rossi on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 03:59:40 PM GMT

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Are the Tories the SNP of England? | 10 comments (10 topical)