Tory attitudes on disability laid bare

You may be aware that I was on GMTV at 6am on Sunday with Tory blogger Iain Dale. I posted the video here, but the response from the Tories who read Dale's site shows just how worrying their attitudes still are on disability rights.

I have extracted from Dale's comments section those pertaining to disability.


"I would have enjoyed watching it except I had to keep my hand over the lower right hand of the screen to mask that awful little man doing signing, which dominated the entire screen. It would give you a migraine having those bouncing hands waving around out of the corner of your eye for half an hour".

"Are there really that many deaf people in Britain who cannot hear even with the aid of a hearing aid that they would discomfit millions to cater to them? I don't believe it".

"That little man in the corner was a nightmare".

"This PC signing is becoming a serious menace, eg on News 24 and elsewhere. Can't there be a switch to block it? Why do we all have to involuntarily suffer this imposition? It made me lose concentration on the discussion. Incidentally if the signing was as wildly out of synch as the sound (on my system at least) there must be be a lot of very confused deaf lipreaders out there!"

"GMTV are forced by Ofcom to have 60 hours of deaf signing per annum. So they choose to do it all on their political programme between 6 an 7am on a Sunday!"

"What's wrong with subtitles?"

"Re that signing, all that waving around going on just out of the corner of your eye cannot be good for epileptics or people, like me, who get migraines which always begin with flashing lights. What a nightmare! It's a horrible distraction. I couldn't concentrate on what was being said until I covered up the lower right of the screen with my hand - not a comfortable position in which to watch an interesting show."

"Why is other people's disability being forced on the vast normal majority? There should be a special button for deaf people to click to get the service. If I weren't such a follower of this blog, I would have clicked the video off after about 90 seconds into the discussion".

"I admit that Mr Sign was most annoying, but I have found an amusing diversion: Much in the way that Saturday children's tv once redubbed that French adventure series 'Flashing Blade', I turn off the sound (second time around) and make up a whole new interview based solely on Mr Sign's gestures and facial expressions. Sad I know, but it can be amusing and it confuses the hell out of my dogs when I fall off my chair laughing".

"Oh well, let's just exclude disabled people because some people find making programmes accessible annoying. Can't be as annoying as a TV operator excluding you from the majority of their output".

"I had to turn over to the other side because of the signing and when I switched back I had missed it. Bummer!"

"Louise, is that how you justify annoying everyone on behalf of the disabled? Just to spread the inconvenience around equally? in effect to impose disability on everyone, to say "we've got problems so why shouldn't you?" Seems like a sad, introverted, counter-productive strategy, and blocks communication."

"If the signer bothers you just open up another tab and browse around the page or the net whilst the interview plays in the background on the first page."

"The technology exists to have the signing as an overlay that could be turned on or off.. but the broadcasters have dragged their feet over implementing it, and the regulator let it slip. It'll probably never happen now, as far as I know.."

"Sigh .... how sad it is that people have a problem with signing on TV, what little of it there is. Realtime subtitling isn't particually easy. I've find it much less intrusive than the ridiculous news tickers than most new organisations now add. Get a life folks and stop wishing others were harder than they are already."

"Re the little man signing his brains out, I cannot get over this impertinence. You are paying a licence fee to have someone else's disability not only thrust down your throat, but distracting your from your own viewing (for which you pay) and possibly causing distress. That constant, rhythmic movement just out of direct vision, when one's eyes are on the main focus of the TV screen and attendant movement, must have caused some people to experience episodes of epilepsy. I get a migraine about twice a year - hardly a major sufferer - but it is this kind of rhythmic flickering that brings it on. I think this is absolutely outrageous. What's wrong with a Click-On facility added to TVs for truly deaf people? This is all part of the Socialist programme of diminishing everyone and flattening them all out. As an ancillary point, I do not, as I said above, believe there are so many completely deaf people in Britain who can't hear even with a strong, modern, specially-fitted hearing aid, to justify that vile government imposition on the healthy. (Not that forcing other people's disabilities on healthy people would ever be ethical.) This is one more step in state control."

"I found resizing the window and moving the slider bars around did the trick."

"Curiously, I started watching GMTV at 6am and I didn't see the guy on acid breakdancing in the corner, or whatever the bloody hell he was doing. Sign language? Yeah right. More like he'd spent all night clubbing and was still going at 6 in the morning..."

"I seem to remember that in the heady early days of digital TV, one of the talking points was that one could broadcast the "sign man" alongside the normal broadcast, and the viewer could configure his TV to show the signer or not, as he chose. That doesn't seem to have happened."


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Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#1)

Thanks Alex, I read some of these earlier this morning. As a disabled person, it saddens me that these atttitudes still survive and shows that we've got a long way to go in convincing people that disabled people deserve as much respect as anyone else.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#2)

I must take issue with the way you have written your post, Alex. The headline "Tory attitudes" imply that the comments taken from Iain's blog are representative of Tory supporters and the Tory party as a whole. That is extremely misleading and most unfair.

Why is it fair for you to make a sweeping generalisation and make it seem that every Tory shares the views of the 20 or so people who commented on one post on one blog?

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#3)

Alex made an assertion concerning grassroots Tory opinion on the issue of disability discrimination. He then backed this up with evidence in support of what he was saying.

You've said that the comments on Iain's site are not indicative of the party membership. Perhaps you'd be able to back your assertion up with evidence too? Thanks.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#4)

I took issue with the title - "Tory attitudes" - which implies the attitudes apply to the Tory Party. Which is patently not true.

Do you think David Cameron, who has a disabled son, holds these views? I am a Tory member and have a close friend with cerebal palsy and severe epilepsy. Would you suggest that I hold these views?

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#5)

Is it fair to say that the majority of Iain's readers and commenters are Tories?

There are plenty of Tory members and supporters who don't have these attitudes, most likely David Cameron included - and they should consider why they support a party where such attitudes are considered acceptable.

If Dave manages to stamp out of the Tory party all the bigots, racists, sexists and snobs, we might all have to consider where we stand - though I suspect he wouldn't have much of a party left.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#7)

I support the Tory Party mainly because of David Cameron and the change process is implementing. I share his vision and aspirations and have no time for the Norman Tebbitts or Wintertons of the Party.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#8)

I don't understand why anyone supports the Tories "mainly because of David Cameron and the change process is implementing" doesn't just vote Lib Dem or Labour.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#10)

Labour is too authoritarian (ID Cards, control orders, 90 day detention etc) and, in my view, takes too much money in tax. LibDems are...well...God knows what they are.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#11)

There are plenty of people in the Labour party who are opposed to the 'authoritarian' stuff you mention. The Orange Book Lib Dems would also seem to be right up your street.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#12)

As far as I recall, the Tories have supported all of those issues in some form or other - not to mention the shoot to kill policy in Northern Ireland.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#13)

I don't think the Conservatives support ID cards or supported 90 day detention. Maybe I'm wrong.

And, as I am a resident of NI, I think I know a thing or two about the history here.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#14)

I think you'll find that the Tories voted for ID cards on the first reading, and abstained on the second. And while David Cameron has said he doesn't want to introduce the physical plactic cards, he's kept stumm about the database. And the objections to ID cards mainly centre around the database.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#15)

And the cost, security and the government's inability to introduce an IT scheme on tiem and on budget.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#6)

I would suggest that, if you were to hold those opinions, you would be in the right party.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#9)

Must admit that I don't like this either. Both some of the comments and Alex's take on them

Last time I checked, you didn't have to be investigated and confirmed as a Tory to post on Dale's site. For all we know, these comments could have been made by Labour apparatchiks posting to try and discredit Dale (before people jump down my throat, I don't actually believe this is what happened)

The internet is populated by some strange people and to take some 15 or so comments posted on one site (mostly by anonymous people) and then suggest that they represent the attitudes of millions of Conservatives is really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as political insults go

I'm sure that this website and Mr Hilton's time could both be more profitably used

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#16)

I think Mr Dale himself conducted a survey not long ago which showed that about 70% of visitors to his site were Tories. So Alex was not far off in saying that these opinions represented Torydom.

Also, think about it - if you were filled with hatred towards gipsies/travellers, muslims, europeans, Scots, disabled people, people on benefits, single mothers, which party would you join? Not ours, you'd get flamed in five minutes for spouting such views. So these people go to the Tories. Especially as the Tories in the last 25 years have picked on every single group above. There will always be people like this, which is why there will always be a Tory party, even if they don't get into government.  It's been like this for centuries. Tories were also against the abolition of slavery. That's their culture.

Also think about it in general - which group of people object to "political correctness"? People who support the Tories. And what exactly is political correctness - it's simply a form of manners that tries not to give unnecessary offence to the disadvantaged, whether these people are minorities who have suffered discrimination, the disabled or the poor. And the opponents of PC usually say things like "Why shouldn't I call that disabled person a spastic - it's political correctness gorn mad, the lefties are curbing my freedom of speech!"  If you recognise yourself in that description, you are a Tory. If you are appalled, you are Labour.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#17)

Wow, those Tories are 'inconvenienced' by 1-hour of ITV signing a week? Poor poor Tories, must be so terrible for them to have only 23 hours of non-signed ITV programming on a Sunday. My heart bleeds.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#18)

If this is going to be the quality of LabourHome's mudslinging against the Tories... then long may it continue, for no-one will take such crude generalisations seriously.

Since when does a few copied and pasted comments from Iain Dale's site represent the typical Tory attitude on disability? Not only are most of the commenters that moan about the deaf signs anonymous, but the one that goes on about it the most is Verity, a crude libertarian but not a Tory supporter. No wonder you don't paste the names of the commenters under the comments you pasted, for readers of this blog will see that you have not verified whether they are Tories. There are Victor Meldrew-type moaners in all parties. Besides, there are some commenters on that thread who berated the moaners for c

So this is how Alex Hilton' argument works:
Premise: Some commenters on Iain Dale's moan about the signman for deaf viewers.
Hilton's Conclusion: Therefore this is the typical Tory attitude on disability rights.

Wonderful logic: continue making a fool of yourself

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#19)

I feel that your caricature of Alex's arguement is unfair and is an example of straw man tactics.

Alex made no such conclusion as stated in your post, at the very most the implied conclusion from his argument could be "Therefore this is a typical attitude amongst those Tories who read Ian Dale's site". I think that your logic is the problem, not Alex's.

As for the disabled comments themselves, I doubt you would find so many of them on a Labour supporting blog, and certainly you would not find so many people revelling in mocking an aid for the disabled.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#20)

Well, if that is not what he implied then he should change the heading of this blogpost for it is clearly a misleading generalisation.

Iain Dale's site is read by people of all political persuasions. To assume that people who make such comments are Tories and then to imply that this is the typical of the Tory attitude toward disabled people is wrong in my opinion. There are 'Victor Meldrew' type moaners in all parties. As I have said, one of the persons who made three such remarks over disabled people is not a Tory and most of the other moaners' political persuasion has not been verified by Alex. The next time he wants to make such mudslinging accusations against another party I suggest he backs it up with more detailed statistical analysis or substantial evidence.      

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#21)

I agree that the headline of the post is a generalisation, but it is not misleading. As Snowflake has already stated, 70% of the people reading Ian Dale's blog are Tories, and with that we can imply that most people that post on it are Tories, so is hardly a great inductive leap to state (by implication) that the posts on disabilities represent Tory attitudes.

As for the political opinions of the individual posters, it is clear that most are likely to be Tory voters, either that or they are on the right in general, and who else are they going to vote for other than the Tories? Some might find an obscure libertarian party to vote for, but rationally they would most likely vote for the Tories, as for them the Tories are the best out of a bad bunch.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#22)

A survey on Iain's site indicated that 70% of his blog readers would vote Conservative, but seeing as his site is probably one of the most read British blogs, there are significant number of readers and commenters from other political persuasions. So, it has not been verified that these commenters are Tory. Alex's accusation is therefore based on the likelihood that they are Tory supporters. Do you not think he needs more substantial evidence to say something like that? Besides, even if the commenters are Tory supporters, is what they say representative of typical Tory (elected and grassroots) opinion towards disability? Alex's headline implies this, but this headline does not follow from his premises, so I find it misleading. This is the kind of mudslinging you can partake in on gossip or red-top blogs, but not if you want LabourHome to be taken seriously.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#23)

Anybody having a brief glance of the comments section of Ian Dale's site can see that the majority hold Tory and right wing views (right wingers being known to be likely to vote Tory over other parties). What was shown by Alex was a sample of this. I don't expect him to go and take an in depth survey of all opinions on Ian's site, I think that a sample on the issue at hand is more than enough. Granted, the arguement that Alex put forward is not exactly a tightly clad deductive arguement, but it is an arguement that has merit and he has illustrated a probable link between the comments on the site and some Tories views on disability. Probability is all you are likely to get in most arguements, expecting some kind of in depth evidence in order to prove the arguement with certainty is somewhat unreasonable.    

As for the headline, you should be wary of labels as they tend to confuse. The prime purpose of the headline is to attract readers to the post at hand, as it did with you or I. Incidently, the wording in the title states does not say "ALL Tory attitudes on disability laid bare" in just says "Tory attitudes on disability laid bare" which I take to mean "SOME tories attitudes on disabilities laid bare" i.e it is not an absolute (in taking it as the conclusion of Alex's arguement). Also, I don't believe it should be considered that the conclusion of an arguement should be the headline, more a summing up. If we consider it as this, then it is a fair and accurate description of Tory attitudes on Ian Dale's site regarding the disabled.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#24)

I couldn't say it better myself - in fact I didn't.

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#25)

Alex, such a mudslinging accusation may be good enough for red top or gossip blogs, but if you want this site to be taken seriously. Supply better evidence next time. As I said the person who made three of the disparaging comments, Verity, is not a Tory.

Look at Verity's 5:29 PM comment on this thread: http://5thnovember.blogspot.com/2006/07/congratulations-to-gordon-and-sarah.html

Verity said...
inamicus - I don't know how I became a mnemonic for why you hate the Tory party. I am not a Tory.  

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#26)

Come on, be fair, they are trying to reinvent themselves this week:

http://kerroncross.blogspot.com/2006/10/new-look-tories.html

Re: Tory attitudes on disability laid bare (#27)

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