Public Sector Reform

redpants Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 07:01:58 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Yesterday, 27th June, there was major rally and lobby of Parliament by PCS and other trade unions under the "Public Services not Private Profit" banner.



Parliment seemed busy, and there were a lot of party members around the place meeting their MPs. This debate is intense at grass root level, with many party members desperately unhappy with the roll out of foundation trusts, pct restructuring, and the introduction of independent sector treatment centres.

But there seems to be almost no real debate around these issues from the centre. The Government is entrenched and so is the opposition.

I want to know what others think. Is this debate too polarised, and is there anything pragmatic that can be done to engage with the leadership and others so that members at the grassroots can get a better understanding of the Government's direction on this issue?


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Public Sector Reform | 13 comments (13 topical)

Re: Public Sector Reform (#1)

by gordonbrown4pm on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:08:52 PM GMT

Does anyone know why AMICUS and UNISON weren't supporting the lobby??


Re: Public Sector Reform (#2)

by Ziegler on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:34:59 PM GMT

What I found interesting was the lack of media coverage on the lobby yesterday. It's unusual to see that amount of activity around Parliament and it not translate into a good few minutes tv coverage / column inches.

Maybe part of the problem was that the message is still a little too disparate - whilst those involved tried to unite around a common view, it was evident that they were using it as a means to promote their own members interests. Perfectly understandable - they have a job to do after all - but if unions / grassroot members are serious about promoting an ideological shift, both within the party and society as a whole, the message needs to be more focussed.

Similarly, the government needs to get away from the view that if you don't back their reforms, you're against everything they stand for. I think the debate has become to polarised, and we need to be able to have a mature debate about what we want our public services to deliver without resorting to sniping positions.

Unfortunately, with a reduced majority, the opportunity to do this in government may now have passed, as any attempt to recalibrate Labour's position is bound to be painted by the right as either a party split or a return to the "bad old days."

If Blair really wanted radical reform of the NHS, education, civil service etc, whatever his end goal, perhaps he should have tried it when less was at stake electorally.


Re: Public Sector Reform (#3)

by John Miles on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:32:58 PM GMT

Much as I loathe the CBI most of the time, I found myself in agreement with a lot of what Neil Bentley said in his Comment Is Free article today. (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neil_bentley/2006/06/privatisation.html)

Why do we care about who provides public services so long as they're provided to a good standard?
Yes, if there's evidence that the service would suffer from being provided by the private sector then, I'm fine with that. But if there's evidence that it can be provided better by the private sector, then I'm fine with that too.

When people try to force you to take sides - that's what annoys me. People in the party with a "public=good, private=bad" accuse the government of having a "public=bad, private=good" mentality, when in fact, both propositions are as misguided as each other.

Why does it always have to be a choice between Public Service or Profit?

I'm sure I'll get a lot of examples of private sector screw-ups thrown at me, but that's my point - I'm not saying private is always better, just that it's sometimes better and we shouldn't assume otherwise.


Re: Public Sector Reform (#4)

by tribunite on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:12:00 PM GMT

I am not sure that many party members are "desperately unhappy" on the issues you identify.  Can you evidence this?


Re: Public Sector Reform (#5)

by redpants on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:24:32 PM GMT

See party conferences passim.

Did Conference not actually vote down party policy on foundation trusts way back in 2003.  

I think you may really be objecting to my purple prose.  It don't go down well in Kettring.


[ Parent ]

Re: Public Sector Reform (#6)

by gordonbrown4pm on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 04:33:44 AM GMT

I agree that pragmatism is imperative; but lets stop taking the interests of the CBI into account. They really do only care about profit. Whereas as a party of social justice we should care about people.


[ Parent ]

Re: Public Sector Reform (#7)

by John Miles on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:34:35 AM GMT

My point is that, just because the CBI are a loathsome bunch, that doesn't mean they're wrong on this one - they're not. It doesn't matter who provides services.


[ Parent ]

Re: Public Sector Reform (#8)

by labourdavid on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 02:06:14 PM GMT

Maybe it does matter who provides public services, not as a matter of pragmatism but to finally re-introduce some ideological content back into the party.

I know Clause4 is no longer but I think a commitment to the maintaining and improvement of public services should be a cornerstone of the a social-democratic party (and certainly one that has any socialist pretensions left).

I am well aware that the private sector is very capable of running business successfully; I would not propose the state ownership of retail for example, but privatised industries have been an unmitigated disaster and further private sector involvement should be actively discouraged.

If Brown wants to make a stand to seem distinctive from Blair come his takeover, then perhaps the gradual re-nationalisation of the railways would be a good start. Electorally popular due to private sector incompetence; cost effective if done gradually as franchises expire and something for the whole party to be excited about.


Re: Public Sector Reform (#9)

by gordonbrown4pm on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 03:22:10 PM GMT

Yeah, we seem to have this belief in private above public in the delivery of servives. We were elected to serve the people and the general mood seems to be towards public not private.


[ Parent ]

Re: Public Sector Reform (#10)

by John Miles on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 05:23:42 PM GMT

Maybe it does matter who provides public services, not as a matter of pragmatism but to finally re-introduce some ideological content back into the party.

You seem to accept that we should be pragmatic, but then go on to say that pragmatism isn't as important as giving the party that warm, fuzzy feeling only dogma can provide.

I know Clause4 is no longer but I think a commitment to the maintaining and improvement of public services should be a cornerstone of the a social-democratic party (and certainly one that has any socialist pretensions left).

To me, "a commitment to the maintaining and improvement of public services" doesn't have anything to do with public vs. private ownership. The default position for so many in the party seems to be: Public ownership = maintaining and improving public services & Private Providers = dismantleing public services. This is such blinkered thinking. Public...private...who cares? Public services are about serving the public not public ownership of services.

I am well aware that the private sector is very capable of running business successfully; I would not propose the state ownership of retail for example, but privatised industries have been an unmitigated disaster and further private sector involvement should be actively discouraged.

Just because some privatisations have been a disaster, doesn't mean privatisation is always a disaster. BT is a good example of service improving greatly for the public due to privatisation/deregulation.

If Brown wants to make a stand to seem distinctive from Blair come his takeover, then perhaps the gradual re-nationalisation of the railways would be a good start. Electorally popular due to private sector incompetence; cost effective if done gradually as franchises expire and something for the whole party to be excited about.

I could definitely get behind taking the railways back into public ownership. It has been a disaster and was never going to work.


[ Parent ]

(Comment Deleted) (#11)

by Anonymous on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 09:27:46 AM GMT

This comment has been deleted by alexhilton


Re: Public Sector Reform (#12)

by rossi on Thu Oct 19, 2006 at 04:10:46 PM GMT

b1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7 b8 b9 b10 b11 b12 b13 b14 b15 b16 b17 b18 b19 b20 b21 b22 b23 b24 b25 b26 b27 b28 b29 b30 b31 b32


Re: Public Sector Reform (#13)

by Anonymous on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 03:35:19 AM GMT

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Public Sector Reform | 13 comments (13 topical)