Immigration's effect on workers; Hazel wakes up

TrueLabour Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 06:17:59 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

I read today that Hazel Blears is warning that immigration is going to become the biggest issue that Labour must address.

Well at last the warnings from Frank Field and others have been listened to.   Other Labour MPs have spoken about builders daily pay rates being halved.




How did a Labour party founded on advancing the well being of the working class end up allowing 1 million workers into the country to drive up unemployment, drive down pay rates , drive up housing costs and make the lives of the people that they represent worse?

The Tories are now stating that the number of 16-24 year olds that are not in work/training/study has risen from by 15% from the 1997 figures to 1.24 million today.  

This is in a growing economy when wages ought to have been rising and work easy to find.

16 glazers in UCATT have lost their jobs to be replaced by Poles.   UCATT must now wonder about the sense of donating £300,000 in recent years to the party.

The New Deal is being undermined. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2496632,00.html


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Immigration's effect on workers; Hazel wakes up | 8 comments (8 topical)

Re: Immigration's effect on workers; (#1)

by Juvenal on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 09:41:06 PM GMT

We are getting into potentially dangerous territory if we start to 'blame' foreigners for stealing jobs and raising house prices.

Migrant workers have probably helped to cap wage increases, but the basis of the minimum wage is to ensure that wages do not drop too low.  The economy is growing, in part because of migrant labour, not despite it, and we all benefit from a flourishing economy.  

The real issue is the increasing skills and education demands of today's economy.  Employers are opting for migrant labour to fill skills gaps, while those in the UK with few or no qualifications are left with few employment opportunities (dwindling numbers of unskilled jobs).  That is why the party must focus on raising skills levels across the board.  That is the route to more, and better employment prospects.


Re: Immigration's effect on workers; (#2)

by TrueLabour on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 08:58:12 AM GMT

Juvenal, Frank Field and John Denham are saying that immigrant workers are driving down pay rates.   They are saying that because that is what they are finding in their constituencies.  One MP is in the north, the other is in the south.

Juvenal said "Employers are opting for migrant labour to fill skills gaps"  Really? So how come:-

  1. Those 16 glazers have lost out to Poles?   our people had the skills but others are being brought in.

  2. We have 1.24m inactive 16-24 years olds and the fast food areas are staffed with migrant workers.  Where's the skill required?

As to getting into dangerous territory on blaming migrants for house price increases...  Well the Govt's own forecasts (which have consistently under estimated migration) say that 1/3 of the new
housing demand is for immigrants.


[ Parent ]

Re: Immigration's effect on workers; (#3)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 09:11:52 PM GMT

Juvenal, I normally like what you have to say, but, as much as I hate to say it, it is almost certainly the case that mass immigration has driven up property prices. It is not just the likes of Migrationwatch and so on who say so. I was researching into this and on some estate agent's website or other that's exactly what the man said. He could have said "Stable economy", "low interest rates", "housing is the best investment" or any such guff but he didn't, which makes me suspect it is in fact true.


[ Parent ]

Re: Immigration's effect on workers; (#4)

by nickparrott on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 03:32:31 PM GMT

It's not migrant labour per se that causes the problem, it's the lack of effective regulation (by which I include the lack of enforcement, e.g. of the minimum wage, not necessarily that legislation has not been passed) allowing the exploitation of those workers by employers, thereby driving down working conditions.

The availability of migrant labour would not be such a problem if it was used to fill gaps in the labour market, it's the fact that employers can replace existing workers on worse conditions that's the problem.

This requires more and better regulation of working conditions (including pay) and proper enforcement of the existing rules.


[ Parent ]

effect on workers; Hazel wakes up (#5)

by Glass House on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:06:37 PM GMT

If eastern europeans weren't coming here to work, wouldn't they just be selling their cheap(er) labour to eastern european firms - allowing them to undercut UK firms and drive them out of business?

Better to get them over here and tax them surely?


Re: effect on workers; Hazel wakes up (#6)

by Mark Wadsworth on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:29:42 PM GMT

That's a pretty good analysis to be honest


[ Parent ]

Re: effect on workers; Hazel wakes up (#7)

by TrueLabour on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 07:12:19 PM GMT

That does not apply to the 16 glazers.

These people are not generally replacing manufacturing jobs they are replacing jobs that cannot be done overseas such as building work, service fast food jobs etc.

And all the minimum wage provides is a floor (in theory) which is also being circumvented through agencies and various devices.

Wages are being driven down because of immigrants, the Bank of England says so!


[ Parent ]

Re: effect on workers; Hazel wakes up (#8)

by Juvenal on Thu Dec 14, 2006 at 08:35:52 AM GMT

House prices - I've been searching for evidence that migrant workers are driving up house prices, but cannot find any.  I guess it is possible that larger numbers of migrants in certain areas (such as London) may be increasing demand, although I would imagine that this is mainly for rented accomodation rather than outright house purchasing.

On the 16 glaziers - I could only find a reference to this case in the Daily Express (not the most reliable source on foreign worker issues).  The glaziers were employed by a Dutch firm, and it wasn't clear to me that they definitely were being replaced by Poles.  

There is certainly a wider issue for the construction sector, which I am aware of from my work with the industry.  Firms are increasingly looking abroad for skilled and experienced workers to fill posts, rather than investing in trainees and apprentices.  This tends to disadvantage the young and new entrants to the sector, and is frankly unlikely to be sustainable in the long term.


[ Parent ]

Immigration's effect on workers; Hazel wakes up | 8 comments (8 topical)