Howard Dean!

pauldburgin Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 04:59:32 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Is Howard Dean ideal to help Labour with the May elections?



According to The Guardian, Howard Dean has been drafted in to advise the Labour Party on it's campaigns for the forthcoming May elections!
Personally I am a bit wary of "Yee hah!" being hired, but given the recent changes in the way US Democrats have changed their campaigning style and targets, it might well be a good choice, and that, coupled with a forthcoming change of leadership may well make May a pleasant spring for Labour!
In any case, what do you think?

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Howard Dean! | 16 comments (16 topical)

Re: Howard Dean! (#1)

by Loz on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 05:05:06 PM GMT

Well just looking at his spectacular road crash that was his presidential aspirations, and his quite disgraceful polarizing comments in the states, I would certainly hope not.


Re: Howard Dean! (#5)

by Stuart on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 07:09:47 PM GMT

Well, I certainly cringed at his speech which caused his campaign to come off the tracks.  Reminds me in many ways of Kinnock and how he condemned us to another five years of opposition on that long night in Sheffield.

The candidate that the Democrats were eventually landed wasn't exactly a success as well, so let's get things in a bit of perspective.  And if you mean pointing out the divisions in society lets have more of it.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#2)

by Glass House on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 05:13:37 PM GMT

You should read about his run for the Democratic nomination - yes, he lost and yes, made a fool of himself with his crazy screaming speech but his campaign was amazing.

Raised millions of dollars, not from corporate donations, but from ordinary people giving a few dollars each. We could learn a lot from the guy.


Re: Howard Dean! (#3)

by MM on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 05:15:16 PM GMT

Seems a little strange as the article says given that the Democrat strategy was to 'bash' the Iraq war.  Also will US style campaigning work here?

There seems to be a great deal of talk about so-called 'internet campaigning' but is there any evidence that it actually works?  It seems to me that the various political blogs out there for Labour, Lib Dems and Tories are for traditional political junkies are they attracting new voters?  The most popular forums seem to be the BBC's i.e. Have your Say or Nick Robinson's blog etc and they all seem full of traditional Brit's (i.e. they moan about everything and it's all the Government's fault).  I'm very sceptical that 'internet campaigning' will have much effect in the short-term, despite people like Iain Dale hyping themselves up beyond belief.

A further point, does Labour have the finances to campaign effectively?  It seems the Tories do have a large amount of money to waste i.e. the new logo and webcameron.


Re: Howard Dean! (#4)

by bornin84 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 06:12:57 PM GMT

Also will US style campaigning work here?

Well we've been doing it for the last 20 years!


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Re: Howard Dean! (#7)

by MM on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:05:06 PM GMT

Perhaps my statement was rather simplistic, will Howard Dean's style of campaigning be effective here in the UK?  i.e the use of the Internet.

Of course people like Philip Gould have borrowed techniques from the Democrats over the years.  But the British electorate is fundamentally different, I'm not sure some the negative ads that were used in the mid-term elections would be successful here.

Never the less it shall be most interesting to see the effects of Mr Dean's infulence.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#6)

by Juvenal on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:39:29 PM GMT

If it helps to draw New Labour towards the Democrats and away from NeoCon Republicans, it's got to be worth a try.


Re: Howard Dean! (#8)

by bornin84 on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 12:04:55 AM GMT

What kind of comment is that supposed to be? It's not in the national interest for the UK Government not to work closely with the US Government, whatever their political makeup.

But to try and pretend New Labour is closer to the "NeoCon Republicans" than the Democrats is ridiculous! Why have members of the Labour Party been over in the last few weeks and months campaigning in the midterms for the Democrats?!! Including with some of the most high profile Senators!


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Re: Howard Dean! (#10)

by Juvenal on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 04:35:05 PM GMT

I wasn't suggesting we were closer to the Republicans than the Democrats.  There is of course no realistic alternative to working closely with the US Government, whatever party is in power.  But as power shifts, and given that the main foreign policy areas where we have followed Bush are not exactly popular here in the UK, it's a welcome move.  Even if the focus appears to be on electoral tactics, rather than new policies.

I know that individuals in the party have been helping the Democrats.  Unfortunately, this sort of work receives little press attention.  At least this story helps to reestablish a connection in the public's minds between us and the Democrats.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#9)

by Loz on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 02:55:02 PM GMT

Even the tories have run away from the GOP these days.

In any case, Dean is not suited to our politics.

He's said things like he 'hates' republicans.

Those sorts of comments and his seeming inability to think before he speaks could do more damage than good.


Re: Howard Dean! (#11)

by swatantra on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 05:07:27 PM GMT

Many of us are scratching our heads; Howard who?
Stick to the US scene, Howard, your kind of 'socialism' will not work here. We're due for a drubbing in May and nothing will save us from that. The electorate are saving up their angst for that. After Blair, the recovery starts.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#12)

by Loz on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 06:18:50 PM GMT

Isn't that sad though?

After all that has been achieved under blair, people are counting down the days?

Can you really be sure the recovery starts?

Recent polls show cameron is certainly holding his own v brown, and has a significant lead amongst women for example.

I'm not so sure we can just count on a recovery being an automatic consequence of blairs departure.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#13)

by davidfloyd on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 08:36:27 PM GMT

"Stick to the US scene, Howard, your kind of 'socialism' will not work here."

I don't recall Dean ever coming out in support of any kind of socialism.

He may have been the most left-wing serious candidate in the last presidential race but - like most Democrats - on economic issues he's miles to the right of New Labour.

The 'I have a scream' speech which allegedly skewered his campaign (I think it's highly unlikely he could have got the nomination anyway) was heavily promoted - and placed in a particular context - by powerful media outlets who opposed his agenda.

It obviously wasn't political genius but he was a commiserating with supporters after losing a primary vote at the time, not giving the state of the union address.  

We have a go at politicians for not caring, then we have a go at them for showing they care. Can't win, really.

All that said, I very much doubt that New Labour want Dean to tell them how to make speeches or come up with policies - they want him to tell them how to generate loads of support (and cash) through the internet.


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Re: Howard Dean! (#15)

by Anonymous on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 01:00:37 PM GMT

And your point is....
Many people on this list hate Republicans (of the GOP variety).  I don't particular have a problem with that statement.

And when you say that 'Dean is not suited to our politics' what do you mean?  If you mean the American style of campaigning I tend to agree.  But I don't think you can claim 'our style of politcs' all for yourself.


[ Parent ]

Re: Howard Dean! (#16)

by Loz on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 09:43:00 PM GMT

That 'hate' comment was a disgrace. For however much you disagrew with them, hate is far too strong a word, and would if bought into british politics turn people off in a massive way.


[ Parent ]

Re: Howard Dean! (#14)

by Jag Singh on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 04:29:52 PM GMT

Howard Dean didn't lose his Presidential race because of the "yee-haw." The media certainly may have overplayed the clip, but he didn't do well in the race because of the complex dynamics behind the US Primaries.

Firstly, the results are always skewed to favour candidates from the North-eastern states (New Hampshire and Iowa hold the first two primaries).

Secondly, most electoral primaries only allow registered members of political parties to go vote (in wintry/snowy January) for candidates within their party. Again, in most races, a Democrat can't vote for a Republican or Independent candidate. Just like bloggers (who tend to be very polarized), only activists vote in Primary Elections.

When it comes to Democratic primaries, if only the activists within the party are allowed to determine who gets the chance to be their Presidential contender, it is not hard to conclude that a liberal candidate will more than likely be voted in by liberal activists (just as conservative activists within the Republican Party will vote for their preferred conservative candidate).

Thirdly, the regional aspect of a candidacy becomes blatantly obvious - Southerners don't usually win early Northern primaries, and vice versa (the roots of this problem cannot simply be traced to the Civil War, though arguments have been made in the past). However, once a candidate usually has won the first two or three primaries, they are likely to have already built up the momentum to surge ahead (they also get a boost from the media referring to them as "front-runners").

Now the hard part:

Howard Dean was not a liberal candidate, even if he was from the North East (Vermont). He's a fiscal conservative, and he's all for 2nd Amendment rights (guns), among other things.

John Kerry, on the other hand, wasn't the strategic candidate - rather, he was the primary activists' preferred candidate. If voters had gone down the strategic route - they'd have voted for General Wes Clark, the candidate most likely to beat Bush in a proper election.


Howard Dean! | 16 comments (16 topical)