No Bulgarian plumbers please

John Reid announces plans to limit Bulgarian and Romanian workers in January, but is it such a regressive step?

From The Guardian:

In a dramatic U-turn that has been attacked as a sop to the anti-immigration lobby, John Reid, the Home Secretary, will unveil plans to prevent thousands of people from Romania and Bulgaria coming to Britain to work. His move comes after sustained criticism that Polish immigrants are entering the country in unsustainable numbers.

Denis MacShane, MP, has argued against the proposals, as has Keith Vaz, who said they represent "a real blow to our reputation as the champion of enlargement."  I think as progressives we should resist any limits on flows of labour, however we are also a democracy and the politicians should reflect the will of the electorate.

Working Class people in Britain have genuine concerns about the increase in cheap labour from the continent.  They believe they are forcing down wages, something Polly Toynbee also argued last month, and that they are using up Britain's precious housing stock.  Of course middle class families will benefit from cheap plasterers and plumbers, and it would be easy to be dismissive of 'regressive' attitudes that may exist, but don't think they're not real.

I went to a Turkish restaurant on Thursday that is situated in the working class area of Sutton-in-Ashfield.  Nearby is a general store that sells groceries and discounted wine (we were there for the wine, natch), and we noticed that they sold a large selection of Polish foodstuffs; there were pickles, sausages, meats, soups, and cooking sauces.  I asked if the area had a large Polish community, and the reply was delivered with a frustrated negativity that told me everything.  Now of course this could have been a chance experience with a particular opinion, however I spent five-years working in a food factory as a production manager, so I know the massive impact foreign labour has had on the country's workforce.  There is a great deal of resentment that must be addressed.

The danger of allowing such discord to fester is that extremist groups, such as the BNP, will thrive on it - feeding the resentment and distilling it, until resentment turns to hatred, and then to violence.  If the Progressive community allows elitism to blind it to genuine concerns, then it will allow the hard-right the opportunity to gain prominence in our towns and cities.

Reid is taking positive steps to convince people that Labour understands that the balance on immigrations is tipping, and that measures must be taken to ensure flows of labour continue to have a positive impact on Britain.  It's commonsense policy, not playing to the Daily Mail crowd.  
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Re: No Bugarian plumbers please (#1)

Trevor Phillips explained on TV this morning that they don't want so many East Europeans coming in becasue they tend to be racist. Go figure.

Re: No Bugarian plumbers please (#2)

Its true. The former Eastern Bloc countries are very suspect; not only do the have a perverse views on equality and diversity but they also have a tendency towards very right wing views, bordering onto the facist; neo nazis movements are growing. It may be that they suffered under authoritaraian regimes for so long that it has become a force of habit. I was dead against enlargement for that reason and that it would take them years to adjust, and they would undercut our markets and provide cheap labour, as has happened. Really, they should have formed a sepaprarte economic union with Russia and the two developed their economies together. So trevor is quite right. Incidently, Nothern Ireland is more racist than mainland Britain.

Re: No Bugarian plumbers please (#3)

Not to mention, they steal our jobs, our women and eat smelly food

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#4)

Love 'em or hate 'em, much of Brown's economic 'miracle' has been built on an expansion of the economy that has only been possible because of migrant workers.

I've spoken to many employers through my work.  They often prefer to employ Poles rather than Brits, not because they are cheaper, but because they are hard working and reliable.  As a Party, we struggle to come to terms with the fact that some people in this country are reluctant to put in the work required to hold down a job.

Racism is certainly an issue for Bulgaria and Romania.  There has been little mention of the fact that Romania is home to a large population of Roma ('Gypsies') - my guess is that this is at the heart of the Government's decision, unpalatable as it may seem.

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#5)

Aha! So to pull all the threads together, we'll let in Romanian Gypsies (victim status) but not Romanians (nasty racists).

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#6)

Err, not so.  My point was that we risk being the racist ones, by tightening restrictions on all Romanians in order to stop the Roma coming over here.

Remember this from 2002?

"The deployment of British immigration officials at Prague's Ruzyne Airport on July 18 drew sharp criticism from human rights groups as discriminatory against Roma. The Czech government agreed to the checks in order to stave off the reintroduction of visa requirements for Czech citizens traveling to the United Kingdom. The agreement was prompted by the wave of mostly-Roma Czech citizens seeking asylum in the U.K. following the introduction of visa-free travel in 1990." (Source: Human Rights Watch)

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#7)

I am lost. Why are we stopping Romanians coming in? Is it because we don't like Roma (making us the racists) or is it because we don't like Romanians in general? And if the latter, do we not like Romanians because WE are racist or because THEY are racist, to wit, if Romanians can't even get on with Roma, how on earth do we expect them to get on with Indians and so on living in UK as equal citizens?

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#8)

As I said a earlier the East Europeans have a perverse attitude on equality. The Roma are victimised and harrassed by ordinary Romanians;they just do not like minority groups; the Easterbn Bloc have a lot of catching up to do in terms of Equality.
The real reason they should be excluded is an economic one. In fact the French and other European conutries have imposed more restrictions on Romanian entry than Britain has.

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#9)

I agree with you on the facts, but it is also true that e.g. Muslims and some West Indians are pretty narrow minded on women's and gay rights.

So does the same go for them as for Romanians or are there different rules here?

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#10)

I think the "we're not letting them in because they're not up to speed on equality" line is a red herring.

We're not letting them in for economic & social reasons - the same as other Western European countries.

People have genuine concerns about this sort of thing and attacking Reid as a reactionary does nothing to address these concerns. People want to know that we're taking immigration seriously - I believe that immigration benefits the country, but it has to be managed.

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#11)

You are abolutely right some Muslim and Black Afro-Caribbeans have very 'conservative' views when it comes to the 'gay question'. This is based on their strong religious convictions, Islam or Pentacostal. It is a debate that needs to be opened up and take place within their own communities; many of their own youngsters are put through sheer hell and torment as they try to grapple with their sexuality and, they are in effect ostracised from their own families and community. I hate to go back yet again to the basic fact that Islam needs urgent reform: it is not fit for the purpose in the 21st Century. I should also add that the same applies to C of E and the RC Church and the Pentacostalists.

Re: No Bulgarian plumbers please (#12)

I think you have wrapped up the thread quite nicely and answered my rather leading questions!