Deployment of "Cougar" vehicle in Afghanistan

HOWLERMONKEY Sun Oct 01, 2006 at 04:16:16 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Des Brown has acquired 100  cougar vehicles to supplement the Land Rovers deployed in Afghanistan. Here are some thoughts on their deployment.



UK armed forces having had well publicised problems with their snatch Land-Rovers, are about to receive into UK inventory 100 "Cougar"  vehicles. The Cougar is very similar to the Hummer/Humvee light truck that has been used by the US military for some 15 years. The Cougar maybe weaponised with a variety of packages, and is somewhat better armoured than the Land Rover due to it's use of Kevalar, but this is only suitable protection against small arms fire and low-speed shrapnel. RPG and roadside bombs (IED's) are still very effective against this type of vehicle.
Congressional reports/ evidence reveals that there has been in the last full fiscal year the loss of 250 Hummer/Humvee's across Iraq and Afghanistan.(Also 21 M1 Abram's Tanks and 150 M2/3 Bradley ICV's) Some of the losses will be due to natural wear and tear but it appears that around 200 of these vehicles have been lost due to hostile fire/IED's.
While the Cougar will give a better performance than Snatch and the  long-wheelbase Land-Rovers, it must be considered that the Cougar can only be a very limited stop gap vehicle for use by British troops in Afghanistan. These figures must call into question the Cougars deployment.

Both Israel and Russia have had experience of low-intensity warfare, and urban warfare, both have devised purpose built vehicles to suit these environments. Israel has the greatest experience in this form of warfare and have developed such vehicles as specialist column Lead vehicles, very heavy APC's, and specialist urban warfare vehicles (Nacpadon, Nagma'sh'ot,  Achzarit. to name the principal vehicles ). Russia has several similar vehicles including specialist demolition vehicles. These vehicles were developed out of existing slightly obsolete tanks(BMPT,andTOS1/2.)

After these nations haveing had extensive experience in urban / insurgent warfare, it would be reasonable for UK forces to have a similar capability. As of yet there is no such vehicles being proposed for UK forces to use in the foreseeable future.
 I would urge the Defence Select Committee to consider this as a matter of urgency.


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Deployment of "Cougar" vehicle in Afghanistan | 2 comments (2 topical)

Criticism galore (#1)

by Jag Singh on Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 11:59:23 PM GMT

Without wanting to get into the argument of whether or not our troops are suitably equipped for their respective theaters, we have to take into consideration that the Cougar is also the UN's AVGP, and if we are to have some force sourcing with foreign armed forces (and by extension Nato-earmarked troops), then we have to consider the degree of familiarity foreign troops will have with our equipment - although I say screw familiarity to save a servicemember's life, any day.

That being said, from what I've heard, the Cougar isn't really designed for lateral troop movement - it's more for non-unit logistics or engineers.

It's also supposedly got elements of the Swiss Piranha, but no matter how bad-ass it is, troop transports these days are vulnerable. Even the American Strykers don't perform very well with the latest HEAT weaponry being used against 'em.

What I'm saying is this: no matter what vehicle is introduced in the theater, you're going to get criticism. If it's not the old wheeled vs tracked argument, it's the thick wall that will shield our troops vs the thick wall that will slow our troops down and trap them in, which by itself is an extension of the force mobility (mass/size) debate.


Re: Criticism galore (#2)

by HOWLERMONKEY on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 07:32:59 AM GMT

There is no argument with your coment.  Your comments on the Cougar being suited to logistics and engineers  is absolutely correct. What concerns me is that they will be deployed outside this role, mainly as a patrol vehicle as the Snatch Landrover is misused now. (mainly due to the lack of a more suitable vehicle)
Certainly the Mowag piranha offers a much better option in size and primary fire capability, as do several other Wheeled APC's
Insurgents are now using greatly improved RPG rounds in Iraq which are now capable of penetrating the ceramic armour on the M1a2. Whether the Afghans have access to this type of round is unknown, if so all vehicles types deployed in Afghanistan will be at risk.The point I was making was that we need a better balanced vehicle fleet, and with FRES shilly-shallying,  The Challenger fleet 20  over subscribed, and the great age of our Scimitar /FV432's we now stand at a crossroads in vehicle procurement. I hope we make the right choices.


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Deployment of "Cougar" vehicle in Afghanistan | 2 comments (2 topical)