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Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#36)

General donations (i.e. donations that are not directed at a psecific target) to the party that are spent paying staff directly would not be registerable in the register of members interests at all - on my reading of the guidance and rules.

The problem with the text of the guidance and rules arises only where there is a specified target for the donation.

Another problem is that the post of MP is not the same as the post of shadow minister ... when a person becomes a member of parliament, the are the representative of the people of the constituency that elects them; they are not the representative of the party for whom they stand.  The shadow ministerial post is held, not as a result of the status as member of parliament, but as a result of a position in the party.  Hence, the office is not an office that is occupied as a result of being a member of parliament - indeed members of the House of Lords can be ministers and shadow ministers and, arguably, a minister could be appointed from outside the Houses of Parliament altogether (although that hasn't been done, I believe, for over 100 years).

As a result, I am not sure that it is necessary, as a matter of interpretation of the rules, for the payment of these office costs to be registered at all.  This is, I accept, a matter of argument; but it is simply not right to assert that these were 'clearly registerable interests' or words to that effect; there is doubt as to whether they are registerable at all.

These gifts were, perfectly properly, registered with the EC; as the law required them to be. 

Of course, this could be said to be the political manifestation of the proliferation of regulation and rules brought about in the last 10 years - where similar arguments and discussions can be had about many areas of regulation.

Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#37)

As I say, in order to establish the facts and to discover if there was any wrongdoing, then there should be an inquiry held. I still don't understand why Osborne is refusing to take part in this - if he's innocent, he's got nothing to worry about.

General donations (i.e. donations that are not directed at a psecific target) to the party that are spent paying staff directly would not be registerable in the register of members interests at all - on my reading of the guidance and rules.

Clearly that must not be the case though, since this whole affair wouldn't have become controversial. The donations seem to be specificially targeted for Osborne - that's why it was reported that two of the donations from the Cypriot millionaire family should not have been directed towards him.


So if that's the case, which I believe it is, then he should have registered them under the Members Interests list.

Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#38)

The very simple reason that this has become controversial is because people have been scrabbling around to shout 'you too' when confronted by the idiocy of the Peter Hain situation. 

What I have been explaining is that there is no 'you too' situation here at all.  The donations to the Conservative Party were, quite properly, registered with the Electoral Commission and, despite your description of two of the donors being 'from a Cypriot millionaire family', no-one has suggested that the donations were in some were impermissible.

The question is whether the donations needed to be registered as a member's interest; my view, when looking at the rule and the guidance is very clearly that it is not clear.  I suspect that the reason that guidance was sought some months after the gifts was that MPs and parties were looking at all recent donations in the wake of the Abrahams affair.

I am glad that you now say that you believe that they should have been registered - because there is no certainty and that is precisely why there is no equivalence.  On the one hand you have declared donations which were properly declared to the EC and where advice has been sought which does not resolve the problem as to whether they also ought to be registered as a member's interest; on the other, you have a situation whether a minister of the Government that brought in most of these rules, apparently doesn't know about more than half the money that he spend on his personal campaign and so doesn't register the gifts with anyone until after questions start being asked.

Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#39)

I disagree. We're not talking about donations to the Electoral Commission - we're talking about donations to the Register of Members Interests. Here, Osborne (and indeed it looks like several other members of the Shadow Cabinet) failed to do his duties and broke the rules.


And indeed it has already been said that there is something dodgy with the Cypriot millionaire donation - that's why the Daily Mail reported it in the first place. Osborne has yet to explain why those donations have been funnelled to his office.

And the rules seem perfectly clear to me. After reading them, it appears that donations used to fund an office (and as far as I'm concerned that includes Shadow Cabinet offices) must be registered accordingly. Osborne did not do this, nor did he seek a sufficient amount of advice considering the donations were so large.


I go back to my original line - that this is at best severe incompetence, at worse, something more devious.

I wait to see which other Shadow Cabinet members are involved in this.

Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#40)

Well there we have it.  You have your view; I have mine.  We could have saved some time, but it wouldn't have been much fun!

Re: Osborne fails to declare £487,000 donations (#42)

Indeed, it was a good conversation!

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